I was going to save the “Great Spoons Queue Debate” for my Bath post, but something happened in Cheltenham yesterday that wound me up that puts the Spoons issue into context.
The King of Wessex is a newish Spoons built alongside the “entertainment complex” for the town – Odeon, Nandos, the Bath Bath Store.
And it’s now the first Spoons, or any pub, that I’ve seen implement a rope barrier system for queuing at the bar. Unless you know better. The gentleman in front of me was a beer ticker; c.900 Spoons visited and he’d never seen the like.
It meant that bar staff only had to look at one person to know who was being served next, rather than desperately asking “Right, who’s next ?”.
I wrote about unofficial queuing in the Parcel Yard last month, when staff politely told customers (mainly tourists) to stop queuing and stand at the bar.
Some of you (BRAPA in particular) will no doubt be shaking with rage at the latest Spoons attempt to make themselves a non-pub. There’ll be offering tasters next…
I can’t get worked up about it in a Spoons or Ember or similar family diner with a big bar, but I think you’re safe in your local Sam Smiths.
You do tend to get efficient service in your local Sam’s though, with acknowledgement at the bar and getting served in turn. They might have the hump with Humph but they don’t take it out on their customers.
Yesterday I was ignored at the bar, and it wasn’t a unique experience. I’ll anonymise this edge-of-Cotswolds mews local, though no doubt Scott has already identified it.
With six blokes standing at the small circular bar, I found the one gap and got my change ready for a half of Otter. I tried to make made eye contact with the barmaid, who was finishing off a round of drinks. I may be ugly but I’m not hard to spot in my “I’M NOT BRAPA” T-shirt, but I didn’t get any recognition. And as you know, waving fivers, banging change or coughing loudly are pub sins.
Gin poured, the young lady came round from the bar to pick up some glasses from tables. “Hello” I offered as a way of establishing contact. Nothing. Back round the bar she turned immediately to a couple who’d just walked in. “Excuse me“, I said. “I think I was next“.
I might as well have been invisible. Perhaps I am. Eventually another member of staff came by and a friendly local pointed at me to indicate I’d been waiting a while.
It’s not the wait itself (a good 5 minutes, but my time’s my own); it’s the lack of acknowledgement that gets my goat. Even a nod or eye contact would do the trick.
Perhaps Disney-style ropes and queues out into the street are the answer.
The Kings Arms in York has had a queuing system in place for years and it is a Samuel Smiths tied house.
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It is a rather obvious tourist magnet, though…
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Really ? That’s news to me.
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The one right next to the Ouse Bridge which appears on the news every time the river floods.
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I didn’t know this either, and I’ve been going to Kings Arms on and off (mainly off due to lack of cask) since 1997.
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It really is a privilege to have the great Si commenting on my blog. Think I walked past it on the way to Falcon Tap last month and it looked very basic.
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Actually, at busy times, there’s a lot to be said for the Post Office-style queue in Spoons. It means everyone gets served in turn, it stops pillocks standing at the bar blocking the view of the pumps, and it means you’ll never get stuck behind the person ordering coffee! But, as you say, it does underline their essential non-pub-ness.
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I agree; not a universally popular view though !
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If you are in a queue and the person in front of you wants four coffee’s you will still have to wait an age while they are being served.
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That’s the case for having a separate counter for coffees, or the bar staff not also making coffees, anyway.
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No, because there’s one queue for multiple serving points, like in a Post Office. So even if one barperson is held up by serving coffees, you’ll still get the next one that becomes free.
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So what happens if, as is my wont, I stay standing at the bar after I’ve been served?
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Is this getting more frequent for you? I’ve seen this a few times but always chalked it up to the I’m a tourist sign on my forehead. It would be sad I think if this type of bad service led to lines… I like the polite method you all have used for years. Very sociable in my eyes.
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I can’t say it’s a frequent occurrence; half a dozen times a year (1% of visits). I anonymised this one as I don’t want to criticise a young person on a long shift who at not have seen me, hard though that is to believe. It’s also the case there was an unfinished pint on the bar she might have thought was mine, but good bar staff will always check if you’ve been served.
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She may have been intimidated in the presence of a famous blogger. This may get more common for you.
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You’re mixing me up with “Bloke from Hull”
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He must deal with it on a massive scale! Might never get served.
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I’d hide behind the bar to escape
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When it comes to queueing in pubs I really don’t know where I stand (boom tish!). Seeing people arrive at the bar after me but get served before me, has really annoyed me. Queueing should at least mean everyone gets served in turn. But is that a substitute for proper bar training? And does it take away the right of a bar person to choose who they want to serve next – e.g. ignore the money-waving prat, give preferential treatment to a regular etc
But a rope barrier?!!
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head – all it takes is acknowledgment so you know you’re not invisible.
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As you say, no experience for training/experience. Same issue with most things in life where we wait, we feel much happier if a human being acknowledges you.
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It’s not unusual to have queuing barriers. A lot of the larger WMC’s had barriers (not in the concert room/best room), substantial ones too to prevent queue jumping and efficient service at busy times, e.g. 12 o’clock on Sunday when everyone piles in bang on the dot and wants a pint. Harehills WMC springs to mind, although I don’t know if they are still there, I haven’t been in for years. There were about four lines with a member of staff dedicated to serving each line.
Southstand Bar at Headingley has crash barrier style queuing lanes (at least 6) as well – one person to take your order, one to take money and the third to present your drinks which are poured two dozen at once. Tetley’s or Carlsberg, one pint or two pint pot – it looks like shit, it tastes like shit and it is shit, but they sell gallons of it every game. RL games that is, obviously no one goes to watch RU shite.
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Was it called Lemmy’s?
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Oh, brilliant. Comment of the week. It had an e I it, if that helps.
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Limmy’s?
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Oh dear !
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“but I think you’re safe in your local Sam Smiths” Well, unless you’re in leathers.
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If going in Spoons early the case for multiple serving points in some is not the case,there is sometimes one person serving so still a wait for people ordering coffee,and in the Berkeley in Bristol there was no one serving,i took a long walk to the toilets and back,the same people were still at the bar and shouting out for someone to serve them.
Please let me know Peter when you are in a Spoons i will join your perfect queue with loads of bar staff serving.
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I’m shaking with rage as predicted. I cannot get onboard with queuing in pubs being acceptable under any circumstances.
To me, it’s all about the uniqueness of pub culture and tradition, to an outsider it must seem weird that you stand side by side and staff have to try n work out who’s next (with help n honesty of the customers) but think of the conversations struck up with strangers over the years, who then might become friends etc. In an age when actually social interaction is getting rarer (am thinking things like self service checkouts) , don’t let us lose this too.
It’d be enough to make me consider boycotting Spoons if they made it a ‘thing’ in their hit & miss outlets, well if it wasn’t for the BRAPA ‘got to tick it off’ factor!
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Well put. You would lose a lot by losing this interaction.
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I’ve never seen Si shaking with rage and not sure I want to. Surely a symbol in the GBG to indicate ropes is needed.
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A symbol for rope may not garner quite the intended clientele. Unless you’re back on the Reeperbahn.
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My target was always to find a pub in the Beer Guide with NO symbols, I.e. not quiet, no pub games, no food, not close to public transport etc
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Time to open your own bar then. Plum Porter on gravity?
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Yes. I’ll bring it back from Burslem in a plastic bottle and serve it to myself on 7 October 2017 at 4.55 pm. A GBG cert.
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Panda pop bottle I hope.
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Don’t be daft !
I use an antique Ben Shaws Dandelion & Burdock bottle.
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But are Spoons really pubs in the conventional sense of the word anyway? And arguably the smartphone app subverts the usual order-at-the-bar model even more.
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Oddly, I struck up quite a conversation with my fellow ticker from Derby in that Spoons queue. I’ll call him Dave, that’s a nice name. Dave from Derby.
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The easy way to deal with the issue of staff taking ages to make coffee is to ban coffee.
The method of standing at the bar is not unique to a pub, it is behaviour I expect at a market stall also. Perhaps such English traditions are becoming outdated. If they are, then so am I.
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Ban coffee. I run on coffee.
You’re right on the main point though.
Are you going to be visiting your new ground next week ?
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To clarify, I have no issue with coffee in its rightful place, which is cafe or pointless after pudding serving in a posh restaurant. I do have an issue with over complicated coffee being served in a supposed public house.
I have two ground ticks lined up in the next fortnight, one of which I am embarrassed to still require. New Craven Park is not one of them, it pains me to say. When Assem Allam drove me out of home games, at no point did I consider that, fanciful Glanford Park clone in Melton aside, there would be a ground tick missed. Allams Out.
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Coffee should be served through the food ordering system, not prepared while-you-wait by the bar staff. Most other pubs recognise this
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Surely all you need for your caffeine fix would be a lovely pint of Titanic Cappucino….
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You’re barred.
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I think you were very patient in the pub.
Five minutes is at the outer limit of mine unless the place is rammed and short-staffed.
I then either leave or if I’m sufficiently pissed enough start singing very loudly the Irish tenor Josef Locke’s Here My Song,Violetta ”
Usually by the time I’ve reached ” come to me,in my gondola – waiting on the old lagoon ” those behind the bar have got the message,often with a terrified look in their eyes.
I then either get served or chucked out.
Once,unbelievably,an old boy at the other end of the bar knew the words and thinking there was a singsong joined in.
Useless folderol I know but it’s much better than getting angry.
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I don’t do terrifying, Prof.
You should know that I never walk out of a pub when there’s a GBG pub to be ticked.
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Excellent end to an excellent comment, Richard. Rugby Union is, indeed, the game of the Devil himself.
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Re: coffee in pubs – one of my local ‘Spoons has a dedicated area for “cold drinks only” to ensure that those who just want a pint aren’t held up by long coffee or food orders. It seems to work pretty well.
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It’s when you see ropes in the Old Cock you need to worry 😉
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One further thought six (6) years on. There’s been a few occasions since when I’ve been ignored and the staff member says “Oh, I thought you’d been served”, particularly when there’s a lot of bar flies or some empty glasses on the bar.
And I had to wait five minutes in the Great Western last week. One chap got served at the back of the bar (there’s a beer list there so it’s obviously used for ordering) but I had to go round the front and stand looking daft for a good few minutes before the (I presume) landlord said “You’ve been waiting a while”.
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